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palusbuteoRoger Waters & Pink Floyd
This randomly came across my YT feed
https://youtu.be/oMMOVC0yAUE?si=wrr7NbBQWd7A3HHk
If you decide to watch it, be aware there's some AI-gen slop imagery I find a bit off-putting but whatever.
My comment to the video:
the whole thing with Waters saying the rest of the band was nothing without him and that the "new" album (Momentary Lapse of Reason) wasn't a real Pink Floyd album is such a weak flex, seeing as "The Final Cut" was entirely a Waters album with some minimal contribution from Gilmour and Mason (since Waters wanted nothing to do with Wright anyway), yet it's still listed as Pink Floyd. Sometimes I think that Gilmour, Mason and Wright could have continued under another name, and maybe Pink Floyd as a name Could Have been put to rest, as it doesn't really "feel" like a complete Floyd without Waters. But, it is clear he hit a...Um...A Brick Wall shall we say, and pushed against everyone around him. I find all of the attacks of Waters, especially in the last couple of years, confounding, upsetting and frustrating to say the least. Also a little annoying, in a beating a dead horse sort of way. Yet I have some amount of 'sympathy' for Waters, he is clearly not at all happy and seems to have some regrets of his actions against his bandmates in the 1980s. He can't have it both ways, and, it's like he knows nobody wants to work with him because he randomly lashes out or degrades others, but then expects others to lift him up and make him look good.
Yeah, I'm still not sure why I felt compelled to comment in the first place. We'll see what kind of Troll Attack Comments I get.
To elaborate a bit more on my thoughts on Waters
When I say I have some amount of "sympathy" for him, I mean that very lightly. It is clear to me he is and has been suffering some major trauma and problems for decades, and he's gotten so used to lashing out and being a miserable piece of shit it's become his identity and the only way he functions.
Instead of, oh I dunno, putting that energy into new music work or something.
I can't say I've ever been a fan of "Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" and "Radio KAOS" and it's been over 20 years since I've sat down and listened to any of that work.
His 50th anniversary Dark Side album I found atrocious and boring, and more like a William Shatner Spoken Word vibe than anything worth listening to. I refuse to listen to it.
Some of his solo Live work, especially with (former) Pink Floyd session musician/concert backer Snowy White, is incredible.
I think his breaking point was the period between "Dark Side" and "Wish You Were Here".
(the following I had on my initial comment on YT but then cut as it felt too long-winded)
And the disturbing re-emergence of Syd Barrett I think really shook everyone in the band. From what I had seen in fairly recent interview with Gilmour, Wright, and Mason separately, they had helped Syd in some form or another on his solo albums, especially Gilmour in producing & sound. But nothing (?) from Waters. And ever since then it seemed like he was extremely "jealous" of Gilmour having taken over Barrett's place when Barrett drugged himself out, and never forgave Gilmour for "replacing" his friend and doing more and more heavily lifting of the band, especially in regards to the "Pink Floyd sound" since Gilmour was more technically focused on developing the sound, rather than just "experimenting" that didn't do much. So not only replacing Waters' friend but replacing the band's sound and identity, too. And as said, it seems Waters never forgave Gilmour for that and so he felt he needed to take control back, which is pretty evident in the wake of "Animals".
Elaborating more on that
Syd has always been a mystery to me and I never found appealing. I can't articulate it.
But he and Waters seemed to vibe on this "chaotic" sound that Syd worked on, where his guitar was purposely slightly off-tune, and Waters not being a truly "professional musician" apparently never learned how to properly tune his bass guitar, or, didn't care to learn. And that hap-hazard professional-amateur sort of vibe is what the earliest of Pink Floyd was, from what I've read.
And I find that kind of sound a bit grating. I did have a "first 3 albums period" period post-college when I was able to buy more albums on my own, but it was a brief one.
Animals I think is one of their best albums and the most incredible, intense sound and style. But it was also the mark of the end of the band, as from that point on, Waters commandeered the band and put him in the leadership role, when none of them had such a thing before. There was supposed to be group contribution. Ummagumma and "Atom Heart Mother" was supposed to be an attempt to give each of the band members a showcase piece compiled into an album, and, it was its own kind of mess. "Meddle" seemed to prove the concept was possible and yet could also be successful. "Live at Pompeii", other than the drugged out interviews, is also incredible.
I understand the beef between Waters & Gilmour, but I still can't figure out (nor forgive) Waters going against Wright. They were the founding members. Last few years Waters has started pushing out Mason, who has also been with the band since day 1. I don't get it.
Gilmour hasn't gotten along great with Mason after "Division Bell" which is also unfortunate. I'm glad that Mason has found success with his Saucerful of Secrets band. And I find it a bit ironic as in the late 80s and early 90s Mason has said he was tired of the "old material" and now with his band, he plays mostly the old material. But now that Gilmour appears himself to be totally done with Pink Floyd and the material, maybe Mason will start to add more of the mid-grade stuff in. (shrug)
The soundtrack albums, "More" and "Obscured by Clouds", are horrendously underrated.
(I don't really count their tracks on "Zabrieski Point" as it's just a hot mess and product of its drug-infused time)
And then there's The Wall.
Probably worth its own post and diatribe
(I also haven't listened to the Wall in at least a decade. There was a point, I think an anniversary, I decided to just pound through the whole album but again, worth another post)
But, to try and summarize, I think if Animals was the cliff edge, then The Wall was the falling-off point.
There's also that moment in Montreal where Waters got pissed at a fan in the front row who was annoying him where Roger spat in the guy's face, and that was the lynchpin that lead directly to the Wall as a concept of isolation and internal struggle & misery. There are times to me it feels like The Wall is really Water's own version of "Wish You Were Here" and trauma-dumping on his thoughts of losing Barrett and what he felt was going on between him and the band, as much as it was about himself.
(I also see parts of "Division Bell" to be Gilmour & Wright's personal "Wish Your Were Here", and Gilmour not just about losing Syd, but also about losing Waters)
The Wall is also the point where Waters was "done" with the fanbase and the ridiculous world fame he and the band had achieved. This I think fed into the late 1970s disgust with the world in general vibe that was going around and we're still suffering with in 2026. Fans went from absorbing to revolting in the aftermath of Animals, and Waters has stated in articles and interviews his growing disgust with fans and shitty fan behavior at concerts, and with every increasing concert sizes and inflating expenses for those tours, the number of asshole fans was only going to increase proportionally.
And the schism between the Pink Floyd/Gimour fanbase vs. the Waters solo fanbase has become a very deep divide. The Pink Floyd fanbase happily embraces the band with Waters and post-Waters. They seem to be pretty good with everything and good mannered.
The Waters-solo fanbase only cares about Waters-solo work, and the only PF albums that exist to them are Animals and The Wall. And they are equally cynical, mean, and jaded.
Of course, his personal life was a fucking train wreck too. And he never recovered.
Also also
Dark Side also seems to be its own sort of tipping point. Everything in that album is about Harsh Reality and some dark themes. Meddle has some but it also feels very inner-reflective. I wound't say it's "Happy" but maybe Sanguine. But Dark Side? It's Dark. But the music? OMFG wonderful. Once Waters assumed song writing, everything else that followed got darker, sadder, regretful, and then with Animals & The Wall, meaner and miserable.
This randomly came across my YT feed
https://youtu.be/oMMOVC0yAUE?si=wrr7NbBQWd7A3HHk
If you decide to watch it, be aware there's some AI-gen slop imagery I find a bit off-putting but whatever.
My comment to the video:
the whole thing with Waters saying the rest of the band was nothing without him and that the "new" album (Momentary Lapse of Reason) wasn't a real Pink Floyd album is such a weak flex, seeing as "The Final Cut" was entirely a Waters album with some minimal contribution from Gilmour and Mason (since Waters wanted nothing to do with Wright anyway), yet it's still listed as Pink Floyd. Sometimes I think that Gilmour, Mason and Wright could have continued under another name, and maybe Pink Floyd as a name Could Have been put to rest, as it doesn't really "feel" like a complete Floyd without Waters. But, it is clear he hit a...Um...A Brick Wall shall we say, and pushed against everyone around him. I find all of the attacks of Waters, especially in the last couple of years, confounding, upsetting and frustrating to say the least. Also a little annoying, in a beating a dead horse sort of way. Yet I have some amount of 'sympathy' for Waters, he is clearly not at all happy and seems to have some regrets of his actions against his bandmates in the 1980s. He can't have it both ways, and, it's like he knows nobody wants to work with him because he randomly lashes out or degrades others, but then expects others to lift him up and make him look good.
Yeah, I'm still not sure why I felt compelled to comment in the first place. We'll see what kind of Troll Attack Comments I get.
To elaborate a bit more on my thoughts on Waters
When I say I have some amount of "sympathy" for him, I mean that very lightly. It is clear to me he is and has been suffering some major trauma and problems for decades, and he's gotten so used to lashing out and being a miserable piece of shit it's become his identity and the only way he functions.
Instead of, oh I dunno, putting that energy into new music work or something.
I can't say I've ever been a fan of "Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" and "Radio KAOS" and it's been over 20 years since I've sat down and listened to any of that work.
His 50th anniversary Dark Side album I found atrocious and boring, and more like a William Shatner Spoken Word vibe than anything worth listening to. I refuse to listen to it.
Some of his solo Live work, especially with (former) Pink Floyd session musician/concert backer Snowy White, is incredible.
I think his breaking point was the period between "Dark Side" and "Wish You Were Here".
(the following I had on my initial comment on YT but then cut as it felt too long-winded)
And the disturbing re-emergence of Syd Barrett I think really shook everyone in the band. From what I had seen in fairly recent interview with Gilmour, Wright, and Mason separately, they had helped Syd in some form or another on his solo albums, especially Gilmour in producing & sound. But nothing (?) from Waters. And ever since then it seemed like he was extremely "jealous" of Gilmour having taken over Barrett's place when Barrett drugged himself out, and never forgave Gilmour for "replacing" his friend and doing more and more heavily lifting of the band, especially in regards to the "Pink Floyd sound" since Gilmour was more technically focused on developing the sound, rather than just "experimenting" that didn't do much. So not only replacing Waters' friend but replacing the band's sound and identity, too. And as said, it seems Waters never forgave Gilmour for that and so he felt he needed to take control back, which is pretty evident in the wake of "Animals".
Elaborating more on that
Syd has always been a mystery to me and I never found appealing. I can't articulate it.
But he and Waters seemed to vibe on this "chaotic" sound that Syd worked on, where his guitar was purposely slightly off-tune, and Waters not being a truly "professional musician" apparently never learned how to properly tune his bass guitar, or, didn't care to learn. And that hap-hazard professional-amateur sort of vibe is what the earliest of Pink Floyd was, from what I've read.
And I find that kind of sound a bit grating. I did have a "first 3 albums period" period post-college when I was able to buy more albums on my own, but it was a brief one.
Animals I think is one of their best albums and the most incredible, intense sound and style. But it was also the mark of the end of the band, as from that point on, Waters commandeered the band and put him in the leadership role, when none of them had such a thing before. There was supposed to be group contribution. Ummagumma and "Atom Heart Mother" was supposed to be an attempt to give each of the band members a showcase piece compiled into an album, and, it was its own kind of mess. "Meddle" seemed to prove the concept was possible and yet could also be successful. "Live at Pompeii", other than the drugged out interviews, is also incredible.
I understand the beef between Waters & Gilmour, but I still can't figure out (nor forgive) Waters going against Wright. They were the founding members. Last few years Waters has started pushing out Mason, who has also been with the band since day 1. I don't get it.
Gilmour hasn't gotten along great with Mason after "Division Bell" which is also unfortunate. I'm glad that Mason has found success with his Saucerful of Secrets band. And I find it a bit ironic as in the late 80s and early 90s Mason has said he was tired of the "old material" and now with his band, he plays mostly the old material. But now that Gilmour appears himself to be totally done with Pink Floyd and the material, maybe Mason will start to add more of the mid-grade stuff in. (shrug)
The soundtrack albums, "More" and "Obscured by Clouds", are horrendously underrated.
(I don't really count their tracks on "Zabrieski Point" as it's just a hot mess and product of its drug-infused time)
And then there's The Wall.
Probably worth its own post and diatribe
(I also haven't listened to the Wall in at least a decade. There was a point, I think an anniversary, I decided to just pound through the whole album but again, worth another post)
But, to try and summarize, I think if Animals was the cliff edge, then The Wall was the falling-off point.
There's also that moment in Montreal where Waters got pissed at a fan in the front row who was annoying him where Roger spat in the guy's face, and that was the lynchpin that lead directly to the Wall as a concept of isolation and internal struggle & misery. There are times to me it feels like The Wall is really Water's own version of "Wish You Were Here" and trauma-dumping on his thoughts of losing Barrett and what he felt was going on between him and the band, as much as it was about himself.
(I also see parts of "Division Bell" to be Gilmour & Wright's personal "Wish Your Were Here", and Gilmour not just about losing Syd, but also about losing Waters)
The Wall is also the point where Waters was "done" with the fanbase and the ridiculous world fame he and the band had achieved. This I think fed into the late 1970s disgust with the world in general vibe that was going around and we're still suffering with in 2026. Fans went from absorbing to revolting in the aftermath of Animals, and Waters has stated in articles and interviews his growing disgust with fans and shitty fan behavior at concerts, and with every increasing concert sizes and inflating expenses for those tours, the number of asshole fans was only going to increase proportionally.
And the schism between the Pink Floyd/Gimour fanbase vs. the Waters solo fanbase has become a very deep divide. The Pink Floyd fanbase happily embraces the band with Waters and post-Waters. They seem to be pretty good with everything and good mannered.
The Waters-solo fanbase only cares about Waters-solo work, and the only PF albums that exist to them are Animals and The Wall. And they are equally cynical, mean, and jaded.
Of course, his personal life was a fucking train wreck too. And he never recovered.
Also also
Dark Side also seems to be its own sort of tipping point. Everything in that album is about Harsh Reality and some dark themes. Meddle has some but it also feels very inner-reflective. I wound't say it's "Happy" but maybe Sanguine. But Dark Side? It's Dark. But the music? OMFG wonderful. Once Waters assumed song writing, everything else that followed got darker, sadder, regretful, and then with Animals & The Wall, meaner and miserable.
